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46 comments:
Classy/moving speech. We showed it to our kids who were less then interested. One drawback (that is totally superficial) what was with the First Lady to be's dress?
Americans truly spoke!!
Whoop Whoop!!!
HOORAY! :-)
Maybe Dave won't owe 7 years after residency after all. Of course then he will probably get drafted after someone attacks us again since we no longer have a military.
Yes his speech was good, as was McCain's concession speech. It certainly feels a little different in America today.
And Rachelle- I was thinking the same thing. In fact I mentioned it to Ben last night b/c it was so distracting - he couldn't care less. What a fashion misstep for Michelle on such a momentous night. Not flattering and I'm sure she is already regretting that decision.
I must say that her dress was much better than the mustard gold thing that Cindy was wearing. And I enjoyed the family coordination, thoughtful.
I guess I'm ok with it, if I have to be (which I do)--as long as he's an Executive like he debates. None of this extreme- leftist stuff for me or I will be VERY disappointed!! Ben was thinking the same as Jenny, maybe payback will be shorter/non-existent...
Scary days are to come. It will really frighten the people who voted for him, because of his race instead of his policies, when he raises taxes on all (which he will have to do if he wants to give all the handouts he plans on giving) and we are living with a healthcare system parallel to Medicare. Don't like your doctor or prescription, TOO BAD!! OR when our military is so demilitarized it looks like Mexico's border patrol. BUT HEY we made history right and that's what really matters, right???? Yeah
Why not lets be anonymous. That just sounds a little too KKK for me.
I truly hope he does great things for America. But as he said himself, "Past is prologue." So we'll see.
I didn't know that we have affirmative action voting, Anonymous, #1. Your insinuation that people only voted for President Elect Obama based on a desire to "make history" completely undermines the idea that an African American man can in fact be an articulate and intelligent leader that can bring about real change. I pray that you wake up to the post Civil Rights era 2000's and realize that Obama's support is based largely on his ability to bring people together in a shared vision of hope, not on the fact that he is black. Obama is an insightful, well educated, and dedicated LEADER who, in my mind, has earned our respect, both for his demeanor and for his policies. Further, he was able to organize and maintain one of the most remarkable campaign movements in political history. I respect your difference of opinion, however, I do not respect your shallow sumnation of victory. Finally, if you are a Republican, please listen to the most recent of Republican leaders when he requested support for our next President. If you aren't willing to do that, then we can all assume that you would prefer that we continue upon this trajectory of economic and diplomatic difficulties; I personally have taken no satisfaction from witnessing people lose their homes, jobs, and savings nor from watching as our standing in the global community erodes.
Tarah you sound like a sweet soul full of compassion and ready to help the down trodden and I commend that. My post was never an insinuation that affirmative action was the guiding post for why most people voted. I think it was a huge step in America's history to have elected a black man as president. Having studied civil rights issues for the past decade I attempt to understand each minorities plight. I do believe that some people did vote for Obama because of his policies. However, based upon MY perception of what transpired during the election, I feel that SOME people did not look past the man's eloquence (spelled right?) and charm to see how left of center he is on social and economic issues. His ideas and comments on abortion to ME are abhorrent. I am not a republican nor a democratic but a person who believes in humanity; especially when humanity involves recognizing something is living inside the womb after conception. His comments concerning his daughter and not wanting her to suffer the "BURDEN" of carrying a an ill wanted child are disgusting and show his lack of compassion and how out of touch he is with middle America. Your misunderstanding as to how govt works scares me and is probably the reason why a lot of people like you voted for Obama. You must realize that for the last two years Obama's party has been in control of the house and now they control the senate. It is in those two groups that the laws of this great country are formed. The president does not create law but is there only to enforce it. Thus, if congress had created laws to protect against what happened to the economy we would not be where we are now. However, I am not one for govt regulation in these affairs and I am not a big fan of pres. bush, but placing the blame on him and running a campaign that preaches that is misguiding and wrong. So, TARAH if you want to call me racist and blind to the change that is happening, go right ahead. Just don't whine about seeing less in your paycheck in a couple of years and realizing that your doctor no longer accepts you because he cannot afford to be a doctor anymore. Look into all the socialized healthcare systems that have been eradicated in Europe. I lived there and I saw first hand it does not work. I hope I do not seem condescending, its just troubling to me when I see people so infatuated in a man for no reason other than he is charming, intelligent and runs a great campaign. If you can explain his policies otherwise then go ahead. Please prove me wrong. I would much rather be wrong and deal with that for the next four years than be right and deal with the contrary. GO BANNING BRONCOS!!!
To the people who think that abortion trumps everything...open your mind. There are much more important things going on that affect the WORLD other than what happens to a fetus. Governemnt and church sepertation is essential!!!
Cheers to free speech, and I applaud those with a voice whatever it may say.
Anonymous #2 said...
Why doesn't Anonymous just come out and say who he is. You lived in Madrid right?
I could make this another lengthy retort, but I will try to refrain, especially in light of Amy already covering one base for me. I voted for Obama, not as a result of his eloquence, but out of an understanding and embrace of his policies. Period. We can go back and forth with a discussion of those policies, but at his point its a fairly moot conversation. You aren't going to sway my optimism or my support for his presidency (not even with your ominous fortune telling) and I most likey am not going to cause you to like him. And that's ok. I don't need to prove you wrong, but my hope is that President Obama and our government (which I do understand, but thanks for the insinuation that I don't) will do that for me.
Oh Amy ye of small brain and big heart. I see the hope and delusion in your words and I applaud it. I too applaud those who express their 1st amendment rights and I applaud you for standing up for what you believe in. I am just sorry that you have missed the issue entirely here. Unfortunately this is not a debate on abortion and the killing of innocent lives in whatever trimester it might be. No it is much bigger than that and it pains me that you are so convoluded and too focused on bashing someone you disagree with that you cannot see the the big picture here. I have never been a proponent of church and state alignment. In fact I believe the govt should always abstain from its involvement in any churchs' affairs unless they are life threatening. I know you feel the same way. Hopefully we can see eye to eye on these issues. I also invite you to study Obama's policies and discredit what I have stated previously. GO BANNING BRONCOS!!!
ooohhh, i love this dialogue. aren't we glad to live in a country where we can have such discussions in public !
As Tyler mentioned in a comment a few posts back:
"Lots of bickering between parties, its true. Perhaps that is the concession we pay for freedom, living in a republic. Better than the alternative, no?"
Carry on.
(the previously deleted comment was from me b/c i accidentally posted this under ben's name - just in case you are wondering what horrible things must have been said to get deleted)
You know absolutely nothing about Amy if you think that she is "small minded", that she has missed the issues, or that she has failed to see the big picture. About the only thing that you got right about her in your own "bashing" of her is that she has a big heart.
oh wait, i wasn't cheering on rude untruths. i'm a little late on reading all the posts i guess. stick to the issues people. what are we...like in high school? hahaha - specifically, any class we all must have had together.
i think anonymous is mr. locke.
Lock from the tv show LOST?
Go Tarah! Tell it like it is! I couldn't have said it better myself. It's awesome to hear such a thoughtful and intelligent point of view that speaks the truth. And, not just because you voted for my candidate. In fact, I wasn't onboard with Obama right from the get go and I didn't vote for him in the primaries. I thought he was too idealistic and I was cynical about the changes he proposed to make. (But, obviously I think differently now) Tarah's comments reminded me of something I heard on CNN and it went something like this --- that the significance of Obama being elected is not solely because he is a black man rather that he is an extraordinary person that just happens to be black.
Lynn you are right. I did not mean to call Amy simple minded just her ideas. This has been a great dialogue between myself and myself as far as policy issues go. Good job Tarah and Amy for raising those insightful and substantive points on Obama's policies. You really got me. I have always regarded Amy and Tarah as friends but as always they are too quick to act without thinking first. All I ask is that they prove me wrong regarding any of Obama's policies which I have raised. Thats all. But they can't because either they don't have a grasp on his policies or they are in denial. All the same, though, this has been fun. By the way this is not Mr. Locke although I did have him for econ. And I am anonymous because I do not have a gmail account. Go BANNING BRONCOS
As to Norma I wish you could have said it better, then maybe I would have gotten a response on the policy issues. But like any other wannabe democrat you have missed the point. This was never an argument concerning Obama's eloquence and demeanor. He wins man of the year hands down. This is an argument about his POLICIES. Tell me, specifically, why you voted for him, and don't give me the puff about his personality or the way he speaks.
I think maybe taking over Lynn's blog to discuss Obama's policy issues in detail might be more than she intended. However, I will BRIEFLY mention what policies of his I agree with -- Education --his proposal to reform No Child Left Behind, to make higher education more accessible and affordable and focusing on 0-5 early start education for parents and young kids. Energy -- reducing our dependence on foreign oil, among other things. Healthcare -- particularly his stance on improving coverage of preventative services. I agree with his belief that entitlement to healthcare should be a right rather than a privelege. Taxes -- providing tax relief to the middle class and only increasing taxes to those that make more than $250,000. Social Security -- their plan to protect social security and not privatize it. I also agree with his stance on "responsibly" ending the war in Iraq and in a woman's right to Choose. Like I said, this is a very brief summary of the policies that speak most strongly to me and I am sure we can go into much more in detail, however I have to get back to work. :)
anonymous #2 said...
Anonymous who did you vote for and why?
Thank you Norma for your response. Its nice to hear from someone who speaks clearly and concisely. Although I may disagree with your takes on some of the issues, specifically the tax issue, the war and govt spending, I appreciate you answering my question. In fact I agree with you on the energy crisis. I also agree with you about the no child left behind issue and your take on education. See two people who disagree on the issues do not need to call others names and be rude. Tarah and Amy you should take a note from Norma's playbook. Speaking of sports, GO BANNING BRONCOS!!!!
I voted for McCain because he was the lesser of two evils. I did not agree with much of McCain's ideologue but he seemed a better alternative to Obama. In retrospect, I should have voted with Alan Keyes. I wonder if Alan Keyes who is very conservative, was voted as president, if he would have received the same reception as Obama. I guess we will have to wait until 2012. And why doesn't anonymous #2 tell us who she is.
Well, I certainly know what to do if I want to get comments from now on. Just post a picture and let y'all take it from there.
I don't have time to catch up on all of the musings going at the moment but as long as it's semi-civil...
By the way, what do you think about the Tree Guy?
above from lynn not ben.
anonymous - i don't have a gmail account either, which is why i keep getting automatically signed out and signed in as ben.
I don't recall ever being particularly rude or calling any names...but regardless, you want to stop having a conversation with yourself, so here you go, I will agree with Norma's (thank you Norma for your fantastic summary) points, then add on as well. #1 Healthcare. I appreciate the fact that he is addressing the issue that people with pre-existing conditions are the people that need healthcare the most and yet are being forced to pay extremely high premiums or are denied coverage altogether. My stepfather has a pre-existing condition and has had to switch jobs as a result of the downturned economy. At times he has been paying over $1000/ a month for health insurance (when business is slow) but he doesn't have a choice. #2 Education. I applaud his idea of a tuition credit based on community or military service. #3. Energy. Like Norma, I would like to see our dependence on foreign oil decreased, but I also appreciate his caution with drilling and his hesitation with nuclear power until safe waste storage practices are implemented. #4. Taxes. According to his tax calculator, I should be saving about $1100, as I don't make over $250,000. #5. Foreign Policy. I believe that we should open up dialogues with countries that are not necessarily our allies in effort to renew what could be key diplomatic relationships...although I have not always been a big fan, Bill Clinton said it best when he said (and I paraphrase), "America has always been a force for her example, not an example of her force." #6. Iraq. In addition to agreeing with his early opposition to the Iraq War, I agree that a responsible timeline for withdrawl is essential and that we should begin to put more emphasis on finding Osama Bin Laden, since we should have been doing that all along. #7. I love his choice of Joe Biden as VP. (That can be a whole other conversation so I will leave it at that). #8. I am also pro-choice, although that shouldn't be taken (as it often is) that I am pro-abortion. As a result, I respect Obama's staunch defense of anything that would undermine Roe V. Wade. I also agree that there should be more emphasis on making sure the unwanted pregnancies don't occur in the first place. #9 I think his ideas on how to fix the current economic crisis (a freeze on foreclosures, small business credits for hiring/maintaining employees, credits for NOT shipping jobs over seas, more regulation, etc.) make sense and I appreciate his calm demeanor throughout the thick of it. I know that you want to focus wholly on policies, but there is something to be said for demeanor when it comes to facing the nation in times of severe turmoil. #10. I completely agree with his articulation (and appreciate that he was able to articulate it both in one of his books and at the Democratic National Convention) that people need to be held accountable. Parents need to quit letting the TV babysit their kids, dads (and some moms too) need to stick around, and we all need to pitch in a little bit more so that the changes we seek can begin right in our own communities.......I can go on, as I assure you that this was no hasty decision on my part. Not only have I followed the election closely, (from the primaries on) I have read everything at my disposal, including both of Obama's books. I have also spent the last few months battling the ever present emailed rumor mill. I can thus also assure you that not only am I confortable and familiar with his biography, I am well versed in his policies. Is that better?
By the way Lynn, Amy and I just talked about the similarities between 2nd period Physics (thank you Dom Perschini for helping me to actually pass that class) and the current conversation. :)
And I forgot #11. Infrastructure. I think his idea to improve our country's infrastructure is good, especially as he wants to focus on ways to not only make our country safer, but to prepare our country for more technogical advancement: faster internet, etc. A plus is that this would create jobs that, like building "greener" cars, could and would stay right here in the USA.
WORD!
I couldn't have said it better myself TARAH and Norma/Eric!!! I know that Tarah has researched Obama and his policies, and has her feet on solid ground.
Tarah, thank you for having my back. Like Tarah, I don't recall ever calling anyone a name, unless you take offense to being closed-minded. I would think that with all this discussion anonymous...your vote needs more justification than a very simple..."he was the lesser of two evils". Perhaps you should have made a more educated choice.
I will not re-iterate the reasons previously mentioned so here is a small list of the reasons I voted for Barack Obama: His take on Taxes, A woman’s RIGHT to CHOOSE, EDUCATION, Healthcare, Foreign Policy, Africa, Iraq, Afghanistan, reform for our economy, a plan for a sensible end to the illegitimate 'war' and homeland security (intrusive as it is), his choice of Joe Biden (vs. Palin - really?), and his take on ENERGY. I believe Obama was very eloquent and straight-forward in the 3 debates that took place, and in the multiple speeches he gave. Anyone who listened would have heard Obamas Policies, and would know why we believe Obama was the best candidate.
No room for shoulda wouldas here. (...if people voted for Obama because he was black...why didn't Alan Keys get equal or more votes than Obama...who is half black?)
Cheers
Oh, and I support Obama's stance on Gay Marriage. What happened to the golden rule, or love your neighbor as yourself, or judge not???
Cheers
AMEN!! AMY!!
Anonymous says to prove them wrong but we dont even know who you are. It seems to me that you may be ashamed of your own views or your just embarrassed. Wouldnt you want to teach your kids that you should be proud and walk with your head held up high. It just seems cowardly to hide.
Barack Obama and Gay Marriage/ Civil Unions:
Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."
Barack Obama did vote against a Federal Marriage Amendment and opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996.
He said he would support civil unions between gay and lesbian couples, as well as letting individual states determine if marriage between gay and lesbian couples should be legalized.
"Giving them a set of basic rights would allow them to experience their relationship and live their lives in a way that doesn't cause discrimination," Obama said. "I think it is the right balance to strike in this society."
Sources: Chicago Daily Tribune, National Gay and Lesbian Task Force
To me Obama's (and Biden's - same) stance on this issue is right on. Even many Prop 8 supporters would agree I'm sure. If you believe in the Bible and Christianity (Orthodox Judaism, Islam etc.) you have two sides of the issue: the loving thy neighbor (all) as Amy mentioned and the ordination of marriage between a man and woman as outlined in religious texts.
Just as American's let their majority voice be heard in the election of our new president, similarly a majority voted in multiple states for the preservation of traditional marriage.
Unfortunately, if you vote on one side or another of an issue such as that, you are all of the sudden pigeonholed by many as being to the extreme right or left, when in reality there is so much in between. If the vote was "Do you hate gay's?" Then I predict that the vote would have been an overwhelming nay. However, as all propositions are written, it seems, to trap and confuse, how can one know exactly what the implications are of your vote in either direction?
Personally I am glad that homosexuals have the rights that they do - civil unions (and all of the rights that come with that), anti-discrimination laws, anti-hate crime laws). How the subject of alternative lifestyles is taught to my children however, will be done when I as a parent deem neccessary and in what fashion I think is appropriate for each individual child. Alise and Nate for instance have an ideal situation (to me), by having a friendly and kind gay couple next door. Through normal daily interaction their children will be exposed to the love and civility that is expected of any neighborly relationship.
Just as God's love extends to all so should ours. President-elect Barack Obama seems to believe that which should be encouraging to all whether or not he "earned your vote" before the election or stands to prove himself over the next four years.
And Amy, I have a particular fondness for any comment that begins with WORD!
And Tarah "people need to stop letting the TV babysit their kids"... well, I gotta go!
Hey everyone, ok let me start of by saying that I am def. not as knowledgeable as some of you wonderful ladies on political discussions. I can pretty much hold my own to an extent. So I have to say that I have not fully read prop 8. My understanding was that gay rights were going to be taken away. I am for gay rights yet I want to be the one to teach my children. Schools should def. not have a say in the matter. Anyway I don’t live in California so I guess it makes no difference what I think at this time. Having said that I am also a devout Mormon. So this website really worries me.
http://www.mormonsstoleourrights.com/
I don’t have much time to look into this but can someone tell me if this is true?? It can’t be but it looks real??
fear=hate=prejudice
Politics are a nasty business. I'm glad that we can elect someone of any color. I appreciate the fact that President-elect Obama is very polished and great at speaking. I have decided to be optimistic about the future but does the word "socialism" scare anybody else?
This has been an entertaining read.
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